What other Democrats are saying

[PVVikeFan]

And nothing to do with what this country was founded on?? Nothing to do with values and morals? Of course that was before the far left radical liberals came on the scene.

[sup-rbeast]

I guess you can view history however you want. But, in my view, the Pilgrims were trouble makers and that is why they were sent packing...religious extremists to the max. And, furthermore, this country wasn't founded to be a "christian" country...it was founded to be a free country (freedoms infringed on by the patriot act...bush's baby) The only value the founders instilled in our governmnet was freedom...the morals instilled in our government was freedom as well. Show me one instance where there is anything in our constitution or declaration that doesn't deal directly with our ability to choose or our FREEDOM....that's all it is about. And the GOP has wanted for years to protect us from ourselves and infringe on our freedom in the process.

[TheBeast]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> how ignorant clinging to both things can make you. </div></div>

Not on the gun part, but telling someone that clinging to their religious beliefs is ignorant is about an atheistic remark a person can make.

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheBeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> how ignorant clinging to both things can make you. </div></div>

Not on the gun part, but telling someone that clinging to their religious beliefs is ignorant is about an atheistic remark a person can make. </div></div>

"Clinging" too much in my book makes you unable to think for yourself because you're viewing things too much wondering what the church thinks...not what you as a person thinks in your own personal religious beliefs. There's a lot less people who use religion as a moral compass to make informed personal decisions as opposed to the many that are out there that simply follow blindly and go along w/what the preacher says, using The Bible as justification.

That is my problem with "clinging". Faith in God is a great thing, religion sucks and makes people weak-minded and group-oriented--and thusly, easier to control. Not atheistic, a simple observation from someone who's been around religion all his life and has just as much faith in God as anybody--and that's more important than faith in a particular church or religion.

[R13]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dick_Vitale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what does that have to do with anything he posted haha? </div></div>

Huh? The topic was about a dem who wont vote for Obama wasnt it? I was asking about the Rep who wont vote because of Mccain...damn.

[NotSoSilentBob]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If McCain wins, it'll be because of those who literally use a "tooth" brush...cuz they only got one tooth to brush..lol...ignorance is bliss. </div></div>

Wow, you really are a piece of work...

[imported_ut1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you can view history however you want. But, in my view, the Pilgrims were trouble makers and that is why they were sent packing...religious extremists to the max. And, furthermore, this country wasn't founded to be a "christian" country...it was founded to be a free country (freedoms infringed on by the patriot act...bush's baby) The only value the founders instilled in our governmnet was freedom...the morals instilled in our government was freedom as well. Show me one instance where there is anything in our constitution or declaration that doesn't deal directly with our ability to choose or our FREEDOM....that's all it is about. And the GOP has wanted for years to protect us from ourselves and infringe on our freedom in the process. </div></div>
Check your history again. they weren't sent packing, as they came of their own volition to escape the Church of England. They received a land patent from the Virginia Company, and intended to settle on the Hudson River in present day New York. However a storm blew them offcourse and they ended up on Cape Cod in New England. Believing themselves to be out of the jurisdiction of both the Virginia Company and the King of England, they declared independence from England. And yes, the initial reason for those early settlements was RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, not just freedom.
The forefathers were very careful not to let a "state church" be established, but at the time it probably never entered their mind that the country would be anything other than a "Christian nation".

[imported_ut1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheBeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> how ignorant clinging to both things can make you. </div></div>

Not on the gun part, but telling someone that clinging to their religious beliefs is ignorant is about an atheistic remark a person can make. </div></div>

"Clinging" too much in my book makes you unable to think for yourself because you're viewing things too much wondering what the church thinks...not what you as a person thinks in your own personal religious beliefs. There's a lot less people who use religion as a moral compass to make informed personal decisions as opposed to the many that are out there that simply follow blindly and go along w/what the preacher says, using The Bible as justification.

That is my problem with "clinging". Faith in God is a great thing, religion sucks and makes people weak-minded and group-oriented--and thusly, easier to control. Not atheistic, a simple observation from someone who's been around religion all his life and has just as much faith in God as anybody--and that's more important than faith in a particular church or religion. </div></div>

The problem is that we try to lean on our own understanding TOO MUCH! There's a reason we're supposed to have a close, intimate relationship with the Lord, to read our Bibles, to go to church, to pray for guidance. The reason is so we will be so firmly established in our faith that the liberal mindset brought on by Satan himself would have no affect on our decisions. Liberal mindset comes from Satan? You better believe it. When the liberals want abortion (murder) on demand and acceptance of homosexual lifestyles (a sin that God Himself calls an abomination), then it can only come from Satan...who HATES God's creation so much he'll do anything to try to destroy it. What easier way is there to destroy humanity than to kill the children before they're born and have same-sex relationships where children are not possible?
I am by no means a religious fanatic, but I'm mature enough in the Lord to make a jugdment call without clinging to anything but the Grace and knowledge He's given me.

Ignorance to me is voting for the same party no matter what, such as was in the letter. I've voted for both in the past, as well as independent, and I will probably do so again in the future. Ultimate ignorance is clinging to your own understanding instead of seeking God's direction.

[centennialdawg]

Excellent post ut1.

[TheBeast]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: centennialdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent post ut1. </div></div>

ditto